這集《The Dad Edge》Podcast 裡，主持人 Larry 一開始問 Tim Elmore 的，是他小時候的事——爸媽是什麼樣的人。媽媽很會把苦差事變成遊戲，爸爸是工程師，有條理，但不太表達情感——「我不記得抱過他，直到我上大學離家。」兩個很不一樣的人，他卻覺得自己剛好被兩邊配齊了需要的東西。On this episode of The Dad Edge podcast, host Larry opened by asking Tim Elmore about his childhood — what his own mom and dad were like. His mom turned chores into games; his dad, an engineer, was methodical but not very emotionally expressive — "I don't think I remember hugging him until I was in college." Two very different people, and yet Tim felt like together they gave him exactly what he needed.
三個不小心的錯 Three quiet mistakes
「我們讓孩子冒的險太少，我們搶救得太快，我們稱讚得太隨便。」"We risk too little, we rescue too quickly, and we rave too easily."
他說，自己的媽媽剛好都沒犯這三件事——小時候在外面玩摔破膝蓋，她由他去；他打電話回家說忘了帶需要簽名的單子，她的回答是「那你自己跟老師想辦法，我不會送過去」。主持人 Larry 也分享了自己四個兒子裡，一個摔角季後半段幾乎全勝的兒子——他當時給的稱讚是具體的：練熟了假動作、顧好了體能、吃得對、頭腦清楚不慌，不是隨口一句「你好棒」。Tim 說，這正好呼應 Carol Dweck 的研究：稱讚一個人沒辦法控制的特質，會養出遇到失敗就停住的心態；稱讚他真正付出的努力，才養出「我可以再努力一次」的心態。He says his own mom happened not to do any of these three things — when he skinned his knee playing outside, she let it be; when he called home saying he'd forgotten a permission slip, her answer was "you navigate that with your teacher, I'm not coming down." Host Larry shared his own example too — one of his four sons went nearly undefeated the second half of wrestling season, and the praise Larry gave was specific: drilled takedowns, managed conditioning, ate right, kept his head calm — not a passing "you're awesome." Tim tied it to Carol Dweck's research: praising traits a kid can't control builds a mindset that freezes at failure; praising the effort they actually put in builds a mindset that tries again.
先讀他，才帶得動他 Read them before you lead them
Tim 提到他女兒 Bethany 跟兒子 Jonathan，個性完全不一樣——Bethany 是「有點難搞的傑作」，十歲時你跟她說天空是藍的，她會說不對，是水藍色；Jonathan 從小隨和。他這樣說：Tim describes his daughter Bethany and son Jonathan as having completely different temperaments — Bethany "a piece of work" who at ten would tell you the sky isn't blue, it's aqua; Jonathan easygoing from early on. He put it this way:
「教養小孩的原則，就像西洋棋跟跳棋。這兩種遊戲用的是同一個棋盤，玩法卻完全不一樣——跳棋裡每一顆棋子走法都一樣，所以你可以一視同仁；西洋棋要贏，你得知道主教怎麼走、騎士怎麼走、城堡怎麼走。我覺得能給爸媽最糟的建議，就是叫你們用跳棋的方式帶孩子……我得先讀懂他們，才有辦法帶領他們。」"This principle for parenting is chess and checkers... In checkers, all your pieces move alike, so you treat them all alike. In chess, if you have any hope of winning the game, you've got to know the bishop does this, and the knight, and the rook... I think the worst advice I could give a listener right now is to play checkers with your kids... I better read them before I lead them."
Larry 也接著講自己四個兒子的情況——連只差18個月出生的老大老二，都完全相反：老大問一個問題可以自己講四十五分鐘；另一個兒子只用「好、沒事、忙、無聊」打發你，得先一起去打靶、打保齡球，他才會開口。直接找他「聊聊」，他反而關上。Larry shared his own household too — even his oldest two sons, born only 18 months apart, turned out opposite: the oldest will carry a 45-minute conversation off one question; another answers everything with "good, fine, busy, boring," and only opens up after doing something side by side first — the range, bowling. Sit him down for "a talk" and he shuts down instead.
我很喜歡這個順序：先讀懂，再帶領。我們自己走過的經驗是，讀懂一個人，常常不是問更多問題，而是願意花夠多時間，跟他在一起。We love this order: read first, lead second. What we've lived is that reading someone rarely comes from asking more questions — it comes from being willing to spend enough time simply being with them.
一整年，六個人，一起把孩子養大 A year, six people, raising a child together
Tim 說，他跟太太 Pam 做過最好的教養決定之一，是在兩個孩子滿12、13歲那年，一起做了一個「成年禮」——他提到很多文化裡都有這個12、13歲的門檻，包括猶太文化的成人禮。Tim says one of the best parenting decisions he and his wife Pam made was creating a "rite of passage" year when each of their kids turned 12 or 13 — he notes that many cultures mark this same threshold age, including the bar/bat mitzvah in Jewish tradition.
Bethany 剛滿12歲那年，某天晚上九點，他們坐在餐桌前，告訴她今年要一起做一件事——那天晚上，他們一起選出六位女性，在接下來的365天裡，每人選一天，讓 Bethany 跟著她過一天：上班就帶她上班，在家就帶她在家，唯一的要求是，那天結束前，分享一句她十二、十三歲時很希望有人告訴她、卻沒有人講的人生話。Just after Bethany turned 12, they sat at the dinner table one night at nine o'clock and told her: this year, we want to build a rite-of-passage year with you. That night, they chose six women together — each of whom would pick a day over the next 365 days to have Bethany spend it with them, shadowing them at work or at home, wherever that day led. The only ask was that by the end of the day, each woman would share one life message she wished someone had told her at 12 or 13, but nobody did.
六位女性都答應了，而且做得比 Tim 想像的更多。其中一位是護理師，把 Bethany 帶進醫院產房，看了一整個上午的接生，下午又帶她去上一堂給未婚懷孕青少女上的課——那天晚餐時，她給 Bethany 的一句話，是關於怎麼看待自己的性。另一位是達美航空空服員，用同事優惠機票帶 Bethany 飛去紐約住一天。還有一位帶她去亞特蘭大市中心，一起服務街友一整天。All six women said yes, and went further than Tim ever imagined. One was a nurse who brought Bethany into the maternity ward for a whole morning of watching births, then took her to a class for unwed pregnant teenagers that afternoon — that night at dinner, her one message to Bethany was about handling her sexuality wisely. Another was a Delta flight attendant who flew Bethany to New York for the day on a buddy pass. Another took her to serve the homeless in downtown Atlanta for a full day.
一年結束時，六位女性都到了 Tim 家。Bethany 上完菜以後，自己搬了一張椅子到客廳中間，六位女性圍成一圈坐著，她一封一封讀出自己寫給每個人的感謝信——讀到後來，滿屋子沒有一個人眼睛是乾的。信讀完，六位女性從沙發上起身，跪在地毯上，抬頭看著 Bethany，一句一句對她說祝福的話。Tim 說他自己站起來想講幾句話，結果一句都講不完整——但他說，不需要他講完，因為那些女性早就懂了那個時刻在發生什麼。At the end of the year, all six women came to the house. After Bethany served them dinner, she set up a chair in the middle of the living room on her own, and the six women sat in a circle around her while she read a personal thank-you letter to each of them, one by one — by the end, there wasn't a dry eye in the room. When the letters were done, all six women got up from the couch and knelt on the carpet, looking up at Bethany, and spoke words of blessing over her. Tim says he tried to stand up and explain what a rite of passage was, and couldn't get through his own remarks — but he didn't need to. The women already understood exactly what was happening.
Tim 說，那天晚上他哄兒子 Jonathan 睡覺，幫他蓋好被子，Jonathan 看著他說——「爸，我已經選好我想要的六個師傅了。」那一年 Jonathan 才九歲。Tim says that same night, as he tucked his son Jonathan into bed, Jonathan looked up at him and said, "Dad, I've already picked the six guys I want to mentor me." Jonathan was nine years old.
Larry 接著說自己也做過類似的事——帶老大去一個由退役海豹部隊教官帶領的15小時「歷練營」，兩人一起泡兩輪三分鐘的冰水浴，面對面撐著，一邊撐一邊講話；帶16歲的兒子去找一位健身房教練 Bart 做體能訓練，不是隨便找一個教練，是特別挑了一個會一邊練體能、一邊往孩子心裡放話的人。Larry 說，現在提到那次經驗，兒子還是會說「教練會這樣說」，那個聲音留下來了。Larry said he'd done something similar — taking his oldest son to a 15-hour "crucible" experience run by former Navy SEAL instructors, including two rounds of a three-minute ice bath where they sat face to face, talking each other through it; and taking his 16-year-old to train with a gym coach named Bart, chosen specifically because he speaks into a kid's life while training his body. Larry says that even now, his son will quote what "coach would say" — the voice stayed with him.
Tim 在最後說了一句很直接的話：「你的聲音，永遠不可能是完整的——我們的聲音也不是。但邀請一整個群體成為孩子的『村子』，把你相信的價值一起迴盪給他，我告訴你，那是無價的。」Toward the end, Tim said something very directly: "Your voice is never going to be completely complete — neither was ours. But to ask others in the community to be that village, echoing your values — I'm telling you, it was priceless."
我們也想成為那被邀請進來的六分之一——不是取代誰，是加進去。We want to be one of those invited six too — not replacing anyone, just adding one more voice.
引自 Larry Hagner 主持《The Dad Edge》Podcast 第465集訪談 Dr. Tim Elmore，「Raising Leaders: Dr. Tim Elmore's Guide to Parenting and Leadership」，逐字稿取自 YouTube 官方字幕。
Quoted from Larry Hagner's The Dad Edge podcast, episode 465, interviewing Dr. Tim Elmore, "Raising Leaders: Dr. Tim Elmore's Guide to Parenting and Leadership," transcript from YouTube's official captions.
「我們不將這些事向他們的子孫隱瞞，要將耶和華的美德和他的能力，並他奇妙的作為，述說給後代聽。」（詩篇 78:4）
"We will not hide them from their descendants; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD, his power, and the wonders he has done." (Psalm 78:4)
透過耶穌這道路，走回與天父重建的依戀關係，是我們所知所行一切的根基。This path through Jesus — to rebuild our attachment with the Heavenly Father — is the foundation beneath everything we know and do.