《Maxwell Leadership Podcast》這一集，主持人 Mark 找來 Tim Elmore 和 John Maxwell，談怎麼跟比自己年輕很多的一代同行。On this episode of the Maxwell Leadership Podcast, host Mark brought together Tim Elmore and John Maxwell to talk about walking alongside a generation much younger than themselves.
但真正讓我們停下來的，是一句話：不是徽章，是橋。But what made us stop was one line: not the badge. The bridge.
徽章開不了的門 The badge that can't open the door
Tim 說，做主管、做老闆的人，常常在自己都沒察覺的情況下，把自己活成了「守門人」——手上有權力、有預算，年輕人得先過他這一關。他的原話是：不是「我的位置讓我有資格影響你」，是「我們之間的連結，讓我有資格影響你」。他把這句話濃縮成一句：不是靠你戴的徽章，是靠你搭的橋。就在錄這集節目的前一天早上，他才對亞特蘭大獵鷹隊的職員說過同一句話。Tim says that without even realizing it, managers and bosses often turn themselves into "gatekeepers" — holding the power and the budget, with younger people having to get past them first. His own words: not "my position gives me the right to influence you" — "the connection between us gives me the right to influence you." He compresses it into one line: not the badge you wear, the bridge you build. Just the morning before recording this episode, he'd said the very same line to the Atlanta Falcons staff.
徽章可以自己一個人戴上，橋沒辦法自己一個人搭完，一定要對面那個人願意接。A badge can be pinned on alone. A bridge can never be finished alone — the person on the other side has to be willing to meet you.
他說的是「連結，讓我有資格影響你」。我們聽見的，是連結會帶來影響力；我們自己走過的，是連結也讓我們被對方影響——橋是雙向的，不是單行道。What he said was: connection gives me the right to influence you. What we hear in it is that connection creates influence. What we've lived is that connection also leaves room for us to be influenced back — a bridge runs both ways, never one.
一場雨延賽，換來一句「我得回去查這個人」 A rain delay, and "I have to go look this guy up"
主持人 Mark 先講了一段自己親眼看到的事：前一週，他看著 John Maxwell 陪一位朋友的16歲兒子打高爾夫球，中間還碰上下雨延賽。孩子離開以後，他爸爸私下跟 Mark 說：「我得回去查一下這個人，他真的太厲害了。」Mark 就問 Maxwell：你今年78歲，他16歲，年紀、興趣、文化都差這麼多，你那天到底做了什麼？Host Mark first described something he'd witnessed himself: the week before, he'd watched John Maxwell spend an afternoon with a friend's 16-year-old son on the golf course, including a rain delay. After the boy left, his father told Mark privately, "I have to go look this guy up — he's incredible." So Mark asked Maxwell directly: you're 78, he's 16 — the age, the interests, the culture are all so different. What did you actually do that day?
Maxwell 先講了一句總結：「人不在乎你懂多少，除非他們先知道你有多在乎他們。」然後他說了他實際做的事：他沒有先講自己想講的，先問了那孩子高爾夫球的事，讓他講了好幾個故事。他還拿出手機給孩子看，說「我把值得記住的好話都存在這個筆記檔裡」——把自己的習慣攤開給孩子看，不是講給他聽，是做給他看。Maxwell began with a summary line of his own: "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." Then he described what he actually did: instead of leading with what he wanted to say, he asked the boy about his golf game first, and let him tell story after story. He even pulled out his phone to show the boy — "here's how I save good things worth remembering" — laying his own habit open for the boy to see, not just telling him about it.
他還說了一句讓我們特別停下來的話：「我78歲，快要走完了。Jack他一輩子都還在前面。我們該投資的是他，不是一個老人。」He said one more line that made us stop: "I'm 78, I'm going to die. Jack's got his whole life ahead of him. Let's invest in him, not an old man."
有時候，成熟不是把自己知道的交出去，而是願意把時間給一個還有很長路要走的人。Sometimes maturity isn't handing over what you know — it's being willing to give your time to someone who still has a long road ahead.
開口之前，要先付四筆帳 Before you speak, pay four bills first
Tim 說，最難的通常不是日常的溝通，是「必須給出困難意見」的那個時刻。他自己想出一套方法記住順序，把英文一句「站得住腳」（a leg to stand on）拆成四個字母：A-L-E-G。Tim says the hardest moment usually isn't everyday communication — it's the moment you have to give hard feedback. He came up with his own way to remember the order, spelling out the phrase "a leg to stand on": A-L-E-G.
A 是 Ask（問）：不要直接說「你做錯了」，先問「你當時是怎麼想的？」。L 是 Listen（聽）：真的聽，不是問完就換自己講。E 是 Empathize（同理）：他老實說，這是他過了六十歲才慢慢學會的能力。G，才輪到 Guide（引導）——他特別強調這個順序：「我要先透過橋，不是徽章，才賺到引導的資格。」A is Ask — instead of saying "you did this wrong," ask "what was your thinking at the time?" L is Listen — actually listen, not just ask and then talk. E is Empathize — he admits honestly this is something he only learned to do well after 60. Only then, G, is Guide. He specifically stresses this order: "I earned it through a bridge, not a badge."
引導不是開場白，而是關係走到某個程度之後，才自然出現的一步。Guiding isn't the opening move — it's a step that only shows up naturally once the relationship has gone far enough.
我們自己選的字不是同理，是去查核對方的現實。The word we choose ourselves isn't empathize — it's checking the other person's reality.
引自《Maxwell Leadership Podcast》主持人 Mark 訪談 John Maxwell 與 Tim Elmore 的節目「The Future Begins with Z」，內容圍繞 Tim Elmore 新書《The Future Begins with Z》（談如何帶領Z世代）出版前的對話，逐字稿取自 YouTube 自動生成字幕。
Quoted from the Maxwell Leadership Podcast episode "The Future Begins with Z," in which host Mark talks with John Maxwell and Tim Elmore ahead of the release of Tim Elmore's new book, The Future Begins with Z, on leading Generation Z. Transcript from YouTube's auto-generated captions.
「神啊，我到年老髮白的時候，求你不要離棄我！等我將你的能力指示下代，將你的大能指示後世的人。」（詩篇 71:18）
"Even when I am old and gray, do not forsake me, my God, till I declare your power to the next generation, your mighty acts to all who are to come." (Psalm 71:18)
透過耶穌這道路，走回與天父重建的依戀關係，是我們所知所行一切的根基。This path through Jesus — to rebuild our attachment with the Heavenly Father — is the foundation beneath everything we know and do.